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An "British Guitar" - wood suggestions
http://www-.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=3474		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Dave White [ Sat Oct 08, 2005 11:55 pm ]
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Following on from my Sycamore topped guitar post, I would like to make a larger guitar with this as top wood, and at the same time see how far a "British" guitar could be made using as far as possible materials native to the British Isles. This sort of thing has been done with US woods (and probably a British one has been done too that I'm not aware of - I think Adrian Lucas was doing somthing similar).

I have in mind a short scale (say 24.9"'ish), slotted headstock, 12 fret body join guitar. This is what I have in mind so far (based on what I have or know I can get) but I would welcome input on all parts (particularly the bits I haven't figured yet!):

Top: Sycamore

Back/sides: English Walnut

Neck: 5 piece laminated London Plane, English Walnut, Sycamore, English Walnut, London Plane

Headstock veneer: Fiddleback ash

Fingerboard: London Plane?

Bridge: English Walnut

Heel and Tail Blocks: Lime

Linings: Willow

Bridgeplate: Sycamore

Bracing: Top sycamore, back walnut. Or maybe yew? Or perhaps spruce (From Scotland?)

Binding/end graft: English Beech as per Robbie O'Brien's recent post)

Purfling: Sycamore, pear and holly would work, but any suggestions for a darker contrast wood? I suppose I could use some English dyes on holly (woad??)

Tuners: Gulp, if I can afford it, Rodgers (handmade in England)

Frets: tricky one, might have to do some traditional British trading with Japan here!!

Finish: French polish - well it's practically British as we used to invade quite often and the best yew for the English longbows came as a result from France Dave White38634.3725810185
Author:  Don Williams [ Sun Oct 09, 2005 12:00 am ]
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That sounds intriguing....what exactly is London Plane? Can we see a photo of these woods?
Author:  WalterK [ Sun Oct 09, 2005 12:04 am ]
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Hi Dave,
Do you know of anyone selling English Walnut for binding??
Please let me know!!

Thanks Brother.

Walter
Author:  Dave White [ Sun Oct 09, 2005 12:24 am ]
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Don,

Russell recently posted pics of a lovely guitar he made with London Plan B/S here : Russell's Guitar

You call the wood Sycamore in the US - confusing huh!

Walter,

I'm sure the many zoot people will have some, but if not I have some that I cut for my first two guitars that I could let you have - nice plain stuff, not zooty;



Author:  RussellR [ Sun Oct 09, 2005 12:28 am ]
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Dave

How about English Cherry for the fingerboard.

The other thing on the bridge english walnut is pretty soft.

Dave you could use walnut in the purfling mix. Or English OakRussellR38634.4061689815
Author:  Dave White [ Sun Oct 09, 2005 12:28 am ]
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I forgot:

Strings: Newtones

Case: Hiscox or Calton

Glue: Hide glue
Author:  RussellR [ Sun Oct 09, 2005 12:30 am ]
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Hi Walter

I have piles of Walnut bindings if you want some also.

Russell
Author:  RussellR [ Sun Oct 09, 2005 12:33 am ]
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Dave

If you want some Cherry let me know I can bring it when I come up.

Russell
Author:  Colin S [ Sun Oct 09, 2005 12:52 am ]
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Dave, the traditional fingerboard(often dyed) and bridge material for lutes made in England was Plum. Any of the fruit woods should do though. David Dyke should have most of the woods you want.

You know you've got to use the Rodger's tuners don't you , just cancel your kids Christmas and next year's holiday, he does cheaper sets for about ?600 ($1000).

Most of the Fret material available over here comes from Holland and we are sort of connected through the EU and through King William of Orange.

Otherwise the list looks fine, I particularly like the lime for head and tail blocks, I have used it, David Dyke lists it for those as well as poplar and willow. But the grain structure of lime is so good.

Go for it I'm sure it will be great. Certainly as good the imported woods.

Colin

Author:  Mattia Valente [ Sun Oct 09, 2005 8:10 am ]
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[QUOTE=Colin S]Most of the Fret material available over here comes from Holland and we are sort of connected through the EU and through King William of Orange.

Otherwise the list looks fine, I particularly like the lime for head and tail blocks, I have used it, David Dyke lists it for those as well as poplar and willow. But the grain structure of lime is so good.
[/QUOTE]

Is lime the same thing as basswood? For some reason I've got that kicking around my head.

And...fret wire from NL? Really? Any clues as to who would be making it? Because I surely haven't found anything particuarly affordable here.
Author:  RussellR [ Sun Oct 09, 2005 8:16 am ]
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Hi Mattia

The fretwire I use is Dutch I buy it via Touchstone Tonewoods, but I am not sure who the manufacturer is.
Author:  Dave White [ Sun Oct 09, 2005 8:19 am ]
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Mattia,

American basswood is Tillia americana so it's the same species as lime which I think here is Tillia x europaea
Author:  Shawn [ Sun Oct 09, 2005 5:10 pm ]
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Isnt Blake Robson in England as well...I have seen his tuners on a couple of guitars and they are very nice...they have to be a little less expensive that Rodgers...

For a lighter colored another nice English wood is Yew...I have used it as well as Plum on lute staves so it could be worked into some part of an all anglo guitar
Author:  Colin S [ Sun Oct 09, 2005 7:45 pm ]
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Yew would be a good choice of wood for things like headplate and rosette. I've used yew for the staves on both lutes I've made so far and would love to build a guitar with yew B&S but have yet to manage to dry some big enough without it cracking, believe me I have tried!

Lime is my favourite wood for headblocks, I get it from David Dyke. It is the wood carvers choice as it can be carved easily without fear of splitting in any direction.

Mattia I've only ever found Dutch fretwire in England I also get it from Touchstone.

Colin
Author:  John Kinnaird [ Sun Oct 09, 2005 9:42 pm ]
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Dave
   When I visited Scotland (does that count?) I picked up a piece of burled English Elm. It was dark and gorgeous, but not long. I made binding, piecing it together around the guitar and the joints were absolutely invisible the grain was so busy. It was very easy to bend. I put that around a myrtle guitar, which I think is about the same color as Yew. (not sure) The scheme worked well.

John
Author:  Dave White [ Sun Oct 09, 2005 10:05 pm ]
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John,

Scotland definitely counts as British although the Scots don't always agree

I'll look out for some elm. The darker woods are going to be the toughest to find I suspect.

I have some logs from a pine or spruce tree that had to come down in the front garden that might yield some nice bracing material. The tree has been here as long as the house (70 years) so it counts as British.

Also the house has some interesting doors of which I have a spare. The panels are flatsawn but the frames nicely quatersawn. Don't know what wood, but here's a picture if any of you OLF'ers are good at wood ID:
Author:  John Kinnaird [ Sun Oct 09, 2005 10:32 pm ]
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Dave, from my perspective I would vote for Fir. But then that is just viewed from an Ameriacan bias.
Author:  Dave Rector [ Mon Oct 10, 2005 12:02 am ]
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Sure looks like fir to me. I've seen hundreds of those door just thrown away during remodel projects over the years. It would be nice to see one get recycled for a change.
Author:  Shawn [ Mon Oct 10, 2005 4:38 am ]
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Another English wood that while not traditional would look smashing would be English Brown Oak. It has a dark rich coffee color and the medullary rays would add alot of highlights.

While the price would not be cheap, most of it is fairly tight grained. The most famous trees are those planted in Cromwell's forest and when they die off often are auctioned off to timber dealers. It is so stable that it is usually sawn into large boards of which I have seen them quartersawn across up to a 64 inch log.

Another variation on an "English" guitar would be to do a guitar that has wood collected from each of the British Isles...it would be fun to see what wood you could find from Ireland (maybe a briar burl), Wales, Scotland, England and Isle of Man.

I am not up on what Woodworking forums are in the UK but there has to be one where you could put out a request for anyone that has wood from where they are in the UK...you may just get something cool and gnarly from the Hebrides, Skye, Arran or outer islands (besides some amazing single malts).
Author:  old man [ Mon Oct 10, 2005 4:45 am ]
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I vote for fir also.

Ron
Author:  Steve Kinnaird [ Mon Oct 10, 2005 5:03 am ]
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Dave, driving south out of Ullapool, there is a fair collection of good-sized Redwoods. Not sure if any of that ever gets cut up...or even if you would want to count that as British. But it would have a great story to it, as well as being just fine for tops. (Well, depending on their growth habits.)

I also vote for the Elm burl, as it looks particularly fine as a rosette.

Steve
Author:  Dave White [ Mon Oct 10, 2005 5:56 am ]
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Thanks for all the suggestions. There are lots of other woods I haven't fully thought through yet like alder, chestnut and sorbus

Shawn,

English Brown Oak sounds great, I'll do some Googleing. Calling the Scots British is brave enough, but including the Irish is just asking for trouble!! Having worked in Ireland for 3 years I saw some nice pieces of bog oak - the next time I stay at my good friend Pat's house in Burtonport, Donegal I'll keep my eyes open.

Steve,

I'll see if I can get Russll and Colin organised and we'll head off for Ullapool axes in hand

John, Dave and Ron,

I think you are right. I suspect the door may be Douglas fir.
Author:  Steve Kinnaird [ Mon Oct 10, 2005 2:19 pm ]
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[QUOTE=Dave White]
Steve,

I'll see if I can get Russll and Colin organised and we'll head off for Ullapool axes in hand

[/QUOTE]

Count me in! I'd love to make that trip again, and I can't think of a better excuse.

Doubt that they'd let me on the plane with my axe, though. Got one I could borrow?   

Steve
Author:  Colin S [ Mon Oct 10, 2005 7:44 pm ]
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Don't let me near a tree with an axe in my hand! The only time I cut down a tree in my garden it twisted as it fell and demolished my wife's green house (believe me not a good thing). But then again any excuse to head of to Scotland.

Dave, you must include both yew and oak somewhere, they are the two native woods that created Britain with bow and ship.

Colin
Author:  Dave White [ Mon Oct 10, 2005 9:20 pm ]
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[QUOTE=Colin S] Don't let me near a tree with an axe in my hand! The only time I cut down a tree in my garden it twisted as it fell and demolished my wife's green house (believe me not a good thing). But then again any excuse to head of to Scotland.

[/QUOTE]

Colin,

That would have to be a hell of a tall tree to hit your wife's greenhouse again all the way from Scotland - but hey, we'll give it a go
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